Mark Zwoniker (Credit: Probe Media)
Through our lawsuit against the DOJ, we have the full interview transcript of Mark Zwonitzer, Joe Biden’s ghostwriter with whom he shared classified information after the end of the Obama Administration.
Read it here.
In 2016 and 2017, Biden enlisted the help of Mark Zwonitzer for his book Promise Me, Dad. Zwonitzer was the key witness for Special Counsel Hur. His recordings of Biden and his testimony proved, beyond any doubt, that Biden knowingly possessed shared classified information on numerous occasions. We’re limited on space, so for a more thorough overview of Hur’s findings, read our article on his report.
Now, for the first time, we’re able to share key excerpts from Zwonitzer’s interview. While some of this information was addressed in Hur’s report, the actual transcript provides important context and also new information that has yet to be disclosed. Here it is…
On Biden providing classified materials (or materials that were likely classified) from his journals as Vice President:
FBI: It’s interesting because we’ve listened to these recordings, it’s clear some of them you guys sit down for an hour and a half.
Zwonitzer: Yeah.
FBI: And all he’s doing is reading –
Zwonitzer: Yeah.
FBI: — Sometimes relatively – in a relatively monotone voice his journal to you. And you take it down verbatim.
Zwonitzer: Exactly, yeah.
Discussing Biden’s diaries and Biden’s worries that the material was classified:
FBI: Yeah, why does it stick in your head there? What can you tell us about that meeting?
Zwonitzer: Well I just remember there was some – I think that was the meeting where, you know, the notion of something classified actually came up.
FBI: Okay. Can you tell us about that?
Zwonitzer: So what I remember is that, what I remember is that he was reading me stuff from the diary and he made a reference that he needed to be careful because he was worried that there was a possibility that, you know, some of this stuff could be classified. So there were things, you know, there were things he couldn’t tell me, lines he couldn’t cross. And I think that was also the moment where he said, I think I found something downstairs.
FBI: That was classified.
Zwonitzer: That had classified markings on it. Yeah. And that was – you know, so that was just after they had left the White House and they were just getting into Chain Bridge Road here [Biden’s home].
On Biden finding classified documents in his home:
FBI: So on the 16th – let’s go back to that meeting at Chain Bridge. You think you were probably, based on the recording that you listened to recently or the transcript you reviewed probably on the main floor in that hallway, library, den area at Chain Bridge Road. And during the conversation when you’re going through material, Biden talks about how I just found the classified.
Zwonitzer: Yeah.
…
FBI: Did Biden seem concerned when he, when he said that, that oh, like, there’s classified down there. I’d better take care of that? Or did he seem nonchalant about it?
Zwonitzer: Well, no, it was in a discussion of I need to be careful.
…
FBI: So I can understand when you’re in the moment with the vice president or former vice president and he mentioned something like, oh this part is classified or I found all these classified things downstairs, maybe you don’t want to discuss it then or maybe it doesn’t register for you at the time, but when you’re relistening to the audio and transcribing it and typing up words like classified at that point did it raise any flags for you or have any impact?
Zwonitzer: I guess it did not.
On Biden sharing his notes of classified information he reviewed at the Archives:
Zwonitzer: So I think I was asking him [Biden] because he was going to review the notes, not from his diary but the official notes that were at the Archives. So he was going to the Archives to look at those notes.
…
Zwonitzer: I remember him reading the notes from the Obama lunches from what I thought came from the Archives, that he took notes.
…
Zwonitzer: I thought he was reading me from notes he had taken at the Archives.
…
FBI: Biden went to the Archives and took notes, did you receive or get to look at the notes he took while he was there by any chance?
Zwonitzer: Later. He read orally – read them to me orally – the notes he took from the Archives.
Biden admitting he possessed classified information:
FBI: So I guess that brings me to – there were a couple mentions in the transcripts where Biden mentions this might be classified, or this is classified, and he skips over parts of it; did you, did you have any understanding with Biden about what kind of things he could discuss with you and what kind of things he couldn’t? And to the similar question of what he says is classified, is that – is it your understanding that that’s National Security classified, or does that mean, you know, I just want this off the record?
Zwonitzer: I don’t – I mean, I don’t know… I just don’t have any strong memory of that.
Biden admitting he shared classified information:
FBI: There’s one recording where he says to you that – he – it – you kind of – he’s showing you something, and then he says that some of this may be classified, so be careful. Do you remember that instance?
Zwonitzer: I don’t.
Biden potentially sharing classified information – and telling Zwonitzer not to write it down:
FBI: Okay. There’s a line… where Biden says, don’t write this down. I think I’ve got to clear it. Does that sound familiar? Do you remember him saying that to you ever, or something like that?
Zwonitzer: It sounds familiar.
Biden keeping Presidential Records:
FBI: He said I – when you said that they’re probably in your presidential records, he said, I don’t think so. It was in between – I didn’t want to turn them in.
Zwonitzer: Mm-hmm.
FBI: Why didn’t he want to turn them in?
Zwonitzer: Oh, I have no idea. But – I just don’t know… but I know they ended up at the Archives, because that’s where he accessed them.
Biden possessing classified records from his time as a Senator:
FBI: He’s another one. It’s another Redweld. This is 1B18 Biden Info on Soviet Officials, and it’s labeled Redweld labeled, Information on Soviet Officials. It has kind of interesting material on the people, the leaders and other individuals he’d be meeting with during his trip to the Soviet Union.
Zwonitzer: Yep. Nope. Neverf saw any of this.
Biden’s sharing of potentially classified information concerning Biden’s role in Afghanistan:
Zwonitzer: So yes, without question we talked about it, I’m sure.
…
FBI: Mark, I want to ask you now, he’s – as he talks about the points he made about the troop surge, or the debate over the troop surge in Afghanistan, he says, I just found all the classified stuff downstairs. And I know we talked about this last time we met, but I want to ask you again just to, just to do it.
Zwonitzer: Okay.
FBI: I mean, having gone through that, can you tell us what you recall about this and what he was talking about during this clip?
Zwonitzer (after a brief discussion on Afghanistan): Well, you know, McChrystal was the general, I believe, who was fired for some pretty nasty remarks about Biden, if I remember right.
FBI: Mm-hmm. And so he’s saying he just found the classified stuff downstairs, and then he – it sounds like he’s describing what he found downstairs or the nature of the stuff he found, and this handwritten 40-page memorandum.
Zwonitzer: Mm-hmm.
On Zwonitzer helping Biden read his classified journals/diaries:
FBI: And in terms of the diaries I know he kind of had them literally close.
Zwonitzer: Yeah.
FBI: He would hold on to them, again they were personal.
Zwonitzer: Yeah. Right.
FBI: There’s at least a couple of times where he kind of asked you help him read?
Zwonitzer: Yes, Yeah. Can you make it this word? That I remember.
Explaining the Deletion of Records:
Zwonitzer: So I was very concerned about the possibility of being hacked. I was very concerned about the possibility of this audio spread all over the place. And the audio, my chief concern at the time – and I’ll explain the timing – was really, was a lot of personal and emotional stuff about Beau. And so this was – I simply took the audio files subfolder from both the G drive and my laptop and slid them into the trash. I saved all the transcripts and getting rid of the audio is something that’s not – it’s something I do as a, as a rule anyway. And I make it a point because, again, I’m not doing gotcha journalism, I’m not going for a quote for the next day. These are personal and private conversations and I never save that audio. I generally save transcripts but I haven’t over the years ever saved audio.
Zwonitzer (discussing the timing of deletion): So the best of my memory it was between the end of January and the end of February. [This was after Special Counsel Hur’s appointment.]
FBI: [The FBI] reached out to you. But after news of Biden being investigated for mishandling and having a special –
Zwonitzer: I was aware.
FBI: Okay. So I assume and I assume that that – the fact that a special counsel had been appointed and you have all these recordings was in your mind when you slid these documents over into the trash, which is okay. I mean it’s okay, but I just want to be clear –
Zwonitzer: I mean I was, I was aware of the special counsel investigation when that happened.
FBI: [The] investigation, [you] saw this happening and then deleted all these audio recordings. And I assume – and it’s okay, I just need the truth on this one, but there’s some truth in that, that was what was going on. That was part of your motivation, at least something you were aware of when you did this?
Zwonitzer: I’m not going to say how much of the percentage of it was my motivation. I was aware that there was an investigation.
….
FBI: Were you trying to obstruct our investigation or prevent Special Counsel or Department of Justice investigators from getting ahold of them?
Zwonitzer: No, I was not. And in fact, you know, when I got the subpoena and when I realized that I still had audio that I did not know I had on the laptop, I made sure to preserve that for this investigation.
The litigation continues for the recordings of Biden’s interview with Special Counsel Hur. More to come, hopefully… (The Reactionary/Techno Fog/6/13/2024) (Archive)