Listing of Participants
A list of individuals with possible involvement or affiliation in Trump Surveillance, Steele Dossier and/or the Russia Narrative
Individuals have been placed into the following groups:
- Resignations/Firings – Department of Justice (Non-FBI)
- Resignations/Firings – FBI
- FBI/DOJ Watch List
- FBI – Assignments Away from FBI Headquarters
- Other Notable Retirements
- Intelligence Officials – United States
- Intelligence Officials – Britain
- Intelligence Officials – Australia
- Obama Officials
- Clinton Campaign/DNC
- Devin Nunes – List of Individuals referred to Joint Task Force for open-setting interviews
- Clinton Confidants
- Perkins Coie
- Sea Island Meeting – Never Trump
- Websites/Blogs – Lawfare, Just Security, Moscow Project
- Think Tanks – Center for American Progress, Atlantic Council, Brookings Institution
- Crowdstrike
- Fusion GPS’ (Bean LLC) Principals and Key Staff
- Fusion Affiliations
- Christopher Steele Connections
- Hakluyt – UK private Intelligence firm
- Penn Quarter Group
- Papadopoulos Related
- Trump Tower Meeting
- Individuals Relating to Magnitsky Act
- Oleg Deripaska Connections
- Mueller Team
- Congress
- FISA Court Judges
- Print Reporters
Treat this post as a work in progress. Names will be added as we move forward.
To the extent you believe something to be materially wrong or missing, let me know. I will attempt to verify.
Work. In. Progress.
Resignations/Firings – Department of Justice (Non-FBI):
- John Carlin – Assistant Attorney General – Head of DOJ’s National Security Division – announced resignation on September 27, 2016 after filing the Government’s proposed 2016 Section 702 certifications on September 26, 2016. The filing does not disclose known FISA Abuses. Carlin is aware NSA Rogers is conducting a compliance review which will uncover the FISA Abuse. The 2016 certifications are scheduled for Court approval on October 26, 2016. Trump surveillance originated under Carlin’s tenure.
- Sally Yates – Deputy Attorney General & Acting Attorney General (replacing Loretta Lynch – 10 days) – fired January 30, 2017. Complicit in Flynn Surveillance and surveillance of Trump Campaign.
- Mary McCord – Acting Assistant Attorney General – Acting Head of DOJ’s National Security Division (replacing John Carlin) – announced resignation on April 17, 2017 – Left on May 11, 2017. Complicit in Flynn Surveillance and surveillance of Trump Campaign.
- Peter Kadzik – Assistant Attorney General for Legislative Affairs. Resigned January 2017. On May 19, 2015, Kadzik sent Podesta an email appearing to tip off Clinton Campaign about the Justice Department’s review of Clinton’s emails.
- Bruce Ohr – Former Associate Deputy Attorney General. Ohr was demoted twice. Stripped of Associate Deputy Attorney General title on December 6, 2017. Removed as head of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force January 8, 2018. Unofficial liaison between Fusion GPS and FBI/DOJ. Wife – Nellie Ohr – worked at Fusion. Long-standing ties to both Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS. Simpson and Bruce & Nellie Ohr have known each other since at least 2010. Ohr has been described as a long-time friend of Steele with a relationship going back to at least 2006 (includes Ohr’s wife Nellie). Ohr texted and emailed extensively with Steele beginning in January 2016 (likely started earlier). See here, here and here. Oleg Deripaska was discussed in emails between Ohr and Steele. Ohr appears to have a significant role in Dossier creation – see here and here.
- David Laufman – DOJ National Security Division, Deputy Asst. Attorney General in charge of counterintelligence – resigned on February 7, 2018. Laufman “played a leading role in the Clinton email server and Russian hacking investigations.”
- Rachel Brand – Associate Attorney General – number three official behind Deputy AG Rosenstein – resigned February 9, 2018. Takes top legal position at Walmart. Brand “played a critical role in Congress’ re-authorization” of section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.
- Matthew Axelrod – Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General. May have been individual who had phone call with Deputy FBI Director McCabe re: Clinton Foundation. From IG McCabe Report: “A senior Justice Department official called Mr. McCabe to voice his displeasure at finding that New York FBI agents were still openly pursuing the Clinton Foundation probe during the election season. The Justice Department official was “very pissed off,” according to one person close to McCabe, and pressed him to explain why the FBI was still chasing a matter the department considered dormant…” Axelrod resigned on January 30, 2017 when AG Sally Yates was fired.
- Preet Bharara – U.S. District Attorney. Involved in Prevezon Case. Used as threat by AG Lynch re: Weiner email/Clinton email case. Fired by President Trump on March 11, 2017.
Resignations/Firings – FBI:
- James Comey – FBI Director – fired May 9, 2017. Oversaw all FBI operations – including exoneration of Clinton and Trump-Russia Investigation. Reported to AG Lynch.
- Andrew McCabe – Deputy FBI Director – on December 23, 2017 announced retirement effective March 22, 2018. Forced to resign active position on January 29, 2018. Fired on March 16, 2018. Involved in all aspects. Subject of IG Report – will be featured in future ones. Reported to Comey.
- Peter Strzok – Deputy Assistant Director of FBI’s Counterintelligence – forced off Mueller’s team – demoted August 16, 2017 to FBI’s Human Resources. IG Horowitz discovered texts July 27, 2017. Strzok involved in all facets of Clinton exoneration. Working member of “Insurance Policy” group. Strzok was fired on August 13, 2018.
- Lisa Page – FBI/DOJ Lawyer – forced off Mueller’s team – demoted August 16, 2017. IG Horowitz discovered texts July 27, 2017. Working member of “Insurance Policy” group. Page resigned/fired May 4, 2018.
- James Baker – FBI General Counsel – demoted and reassigned on December 20, 2017. Working member of “Insurance Policy” group. Senior-most legal counsel at FBI. Baker resigned/fired May 4, 2018. Took position at Lawfare.
- James Rybicki – Chief of Staff to FBI Director James Comey & successor Chris Wray – resigned/forced out January 23, 2018. Working member of “Insurance Policy” group.
- Josh Campbell – Special Assistant to James Comey – resigned on February 2, 2018. Writes op-ed in New York Times on why he is leaving but does not disclose in op-ed that he was Special Assistant to Comey – or that he had been offered lucrative CNN job. Takes job with CNN on February 5, 2018.
- Michael Kortan – FBI Asst. Director Public Affairs – resigned on February 8, 2018 – effective February 15, 2018. Kortan served as assistant director for public affairs, an influential job that controlled media access.
- Greg Brower (FBI) – Assistant Director for the Office of Congressional Affairs. FBI’s liaison with Congress. Listed by Devin Nunes as one of the individuals he wants to interview. Resigned suddenly on March 30, 2018.
- James Turgal (FBI) – Executive Assistant Director for Information and Technology Branch. Retired from FBI sometime prior to January 9, 2018.
- Michael B. Steinbach (FBI) – Executive Assistant Director for the National Security Branch. Was FBI’s top national security official. Some reports state Steinbach replaced John Giacalone who quit over frustration with Clinton Investigation. Other reports say it was McCabe who replaced Giacalone. Steinbach claims to have personally handled the Clinton Email Investigation. Retired from FBI in February 2017.
- Bill Priestap – Assistant Director – Head of FBI Counterintelligence – Holds same position. Strzok’s boss – reported directly to McCabe. More here, here and here.
FBI/DOJ Watch List:
- Bruce Ohr is a former Associate Deputy Attorney General. Ohr was demoted twice. Stripped of Associate Deputy Attorney General title on December 6, 2017. Removed as head of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force January 8, 2018. Unofficial liaison between Fusion GPS and FBI/DOJ. Wife – Nellie Ohr – worked at Fusion. Long-standing ties to both Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS. Simpson and Bruce & Nellie Ohr have known each other since at least 2010. Ohr has been described as a long-time friend of Steele with a relationship going back to at least 2006 (includes Ohr’s wife Nellie). Ohr texted and emailed extensively with Steele beginning in January 2016 (likely started earlier). See here, here and here. Oleg Deripaska was discussed in emails between Ohr and Steele. Ohr appears to have a significant role in Dossier creation – see here and here.
- David Bowditch (FBI) – Replaced Andrew McCabe as Acting Deputy FBI Director. Bowditch’s name is featured in emails and Strzok texts.
- Trisha Anderson (DOJ) – adviser in the Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel, was previously an attorney at Attorney General Eric Holder’s former firm, Covington & Burling. Attended two April 25, 2016 White House meetings with FBI Counsel James Baker and several DOJ FISA lawyers – Tashina Guahar, Christopher Hardee, Brad Wiegmann. Anderson’s name appears in Strzok/Page texts.
- Sally Moyer (FBI) – Attorney. Listed by Devin Nunes as one of the individuals he wants to interview.
- Dana Boente (DOJ/FBI) – FBI General Counsel – Appointed on January 23, 2018 – replacing James Baker who was demoted and reassigned. Acting Head of DOJ’s National Security Division until January 23, 2018 and the US Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia. Replaced Mary McCord in NSD Role. Was briefly Acting Deputy Attorney General until Rosenstein appointed.
- Edward O’Callaghan (DOJ) – became Acting Assistant Attorney General and Acting Head of DOJ’s National Security Division on January 27, 2018, replacing Dana Boente.
- Jonathan Moffa (FBI) – Copied on Comey’s Draft Statement exonerating Clinton of Email Scandal. Mentioned in Strzok/Page texts. Surprisingly hard to find any information on Moffa.
- Michael Gaeta (FBI) – Ran FBI’s Eurasian organized crime unit in New York. Has known Steele previously. Led the 2013 FBI investigation of Russian mafia boss, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov. For two years ending in 2013, the FBI had a court-approved warrant to eavesdrop on Tokhtakhounov’s money-laundering network that operated out of unit 63A in Trump Tower. Gaeta was the FBI Agent sent to London to meet with Christopher Steele and obtain first copy of Dossier. Gaeta’s trip approved by State’s Victoria Nuland. Gaeta may have given copy of Dossier to Nuland before anyone else.
- Joe Pientka – FBI Agent – Counterintelligence Division. Pientka potentially identified by Grassley as second FBI Agent (Strzok the other) present at Flynn Interview.
- George Toscas – (DOJ) – Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the National Security Division. Toscas contacted by NY Prosecutors (possibly Preet Bharara) about Weiner investigation re: HRC/Huma emails on Weiner computer. Toscas contacts FBI, forcing McCabe to tell Comey of emails.
- Randy Coleman (FBI) – Executive Assistant Director, oversight of all FBI domestic and international cyber operations and investigations concerning cyber matters.
- Brian Brooks (FBI) – Assistant Director of the Operational Technology Division. Recently promoted by FBI Director Chris Wray.
- Tashina Guahar (DOJ) – Deputy Assistant Attorney General. National Security Division. FISA lawyer. Appears in Strzok Texts as “Tash”.
- Norman “Christopher” Hardee (DOJ) – Chief Counsel for Policy, National Security Division. FISA lawyer.
- Brad Wiegmann (DOJ) – Deputy Assistant Attorney General, National Security Division – Office of Law and Policy. FISA lawyer.
- John T. Lynch (DOJ) – Chief, Computer Crime & Intellectual Property Section – Criminal Division.
- Alan Rozenshtein (DOJ) – Attorney Advisor with the Office of Law and Policy in the National Security Division. Resigned April 2017. Visiting professor. Writes for Lawfare.
- Iris Lan (DOJ) – Associate Deputy Attorney General. Previously U.S. Attorney at Southern District of New York.
- James Tranor (FBI) – Assistant Director of the Cyber Division. Mentioned in Strzok Texts. Retired October 2016.
- Bryan Paarman (FBI) – Deputy Assistant Director of Counterterrorism. Mentioned in Strzok texts re: Clinton MYE. Extensive international experience. 2004-2007 Senior FBI representative and accredited diplomat in the US Embassies in Tbilisi, Georgia and Kyiv, Ukraine.
- Robert Anderson (FBI) – Former Executive Assistant Director under Mueller. Principal at the Chertoff Group’s global Strategic Advisory Services. Mentioned in Strzok texts re: Clinton MYE.
FBI – Assignments Away from FBI Headquarters:
- Stephen Laycock – Special Agent in charge of the Counterintelligence Division for the Washington Field Office. Previously Section Chief of the Eurasia Section in the Counterintelligence Division at FBI Headquarters.
- Charles McGonigal – Special Agent in charge of the Counterintelligence Division for the New York Field Office. Previously Section Chief of the Cyber-Counterintelligence Coordination Section at FBI Headquarters.
- Gerald Roberts – Special Agent in charge of the Intelligence Division of the Washington Field Office. Previously Section Chief of the Terrorist Financing Operations Section in the Counterterrorism Division at FBI Headquarters.
- Charles Kable – Special Agent in charge of the Counterintelligence Division at the Washington Field Office. Previously Section Chief of the Counterespionage Section at FBI Headquarters.
- Louis Bladel – Special Agent in charge of the Counterintelligence Division of the New York Field Office. Previously Section Chief of the Counter-Proliferation Center at FBI Headquarters. Retired 2016.
The individuals listed above had been Section Chiefs at FBI Headquarters. Comey transferred each to field offices.
Note: The names of James Turgal, Randy Coleman, Brian Brooks came from a request for all documents and communications from Senator Ron Johnson. Other names on Johnson’s request were previously known.
Other Notable Retirements:
- Chuck Rosenberg – Former Acting Head of the Drug Enforcement Administration. Twice served as Chief of Staff to former FBI Director James Comey. Abruptly resigned September 30, 2017.
State Department:
- John Kerry – Former Secretary of State. Received copy of Dossier from Nuland.
- Victoria Nuland – Former Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. Gave green light to FBI Agent Gaeta’s meeting w/Steele in July 2016. Received copy of Steele Dossier in July 2016. May have seen Dossier prior to FBI Leadership. Gave Dossier to FBI, Kerry. Nuland had known Steel since 2014 through Jonathan Winer. Lied about bilateral talks with Iran.
- Evelyn Farkas – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia. Farkas detailed in interview how the Obama Administration gathered and disseminated intelligence on the Trump Team. Farkas is a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council.
- Kathleen Kavalec – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs. Served under Nuland.
- Jonathan Winer – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Law Enforcement and former Special Envoy for Libya. Received copy of Shadow Dossier from Blumenthal. Also received copy of Steele Dossier in September 2016. Has known Steele for some years.
- Robert Otto – State Department – Bureau of Intelligence and Research specializing in Russia. Received emails from Nellie and Bruce Ohr since at least March 2016 relating to Natalia Veselnitskaya. Otto’s wife is Anne Jablonski. Jablonski worked for CIA (CIA’s top Russian organized crime expert) until forced resignation in May 2008. Jablonski was CIA handler for retired FBI Agent Robert Levinson who was kidnapped and remains missing in Iran. Oleg Deripaska would be enlisted in 2009 by then-FBI Director Robert Mueller for help in obtaining the release of Levinson. Andrew McCabe recruited Deripaska for the attempt. Clinton State Department killed the deal.
- Elizabeth Dibble – Chargé d’affaires & former Deputy Chief of the Mission in London – received tip on Papadopoulos via Downer (h/t @JohnWHuber).
- Jonathan Finer – Chief of Staff and Director of Policy Planning for former Secretary John Kerry.
- Lewis Lukens – Deputy Chief of Mission of the U.S. Embassy in London – also likely involved in Downer interactions.
- Thomas Williams – Deputy Chief of Mission – State Department.
Intelligence Officials – United States:
- John Brennan – CIA Director. At center of FBI Counterintelligence Investigation and Russia Narrative. More on Brennan:
- James Clapper – Director of National Intelligence. Serves on the Atlantic Council’s International Advisory Board. Clapper was the architect of the report on Russian Election Interference – Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in Recent U.S. Elections. Leaked information of Comey’s meeting with President Trump to CNN. Supporting role to Brennan. More on Clapper:
- Richard H. Ledgett Jr – Deputy Director of the NSA. Abruptly retired in April 2017. His retirement is noted in Lawfare.
Intelligence Officials – Britain:
- Robert Hannigan – Britain’s GCHQ Head. Personally flew to DC to meet with CIA Director John Brennan. Hannigan’s U.S. Counterpart was NSA Rogers – not Brennan. Hannigan would abruptly retire days after President Trump’s Inauguration. More here.
- Sir Andrew Wood – Former British Ambassador to Russia. Briefed John McCain on Steele Dossier. May have worked on behalf of Fusion and/or Orbis.
- Richard Dearlove – Former MI6 Head (1999-2004). Was Christopher Steele’s boss. Had known Steele and Burrows personally. Steel and Burrows would meet Dearlove in early Fall 2016. Dearlove advised Steele and Burrows to work discreetly with a top British government official to pass along information to the FBI.
- Christopher Steele – Orbis Partner – author of Steele Dossier. Employed as contractor by Fusion GPS. Former British intelligence officer with MI6 from 1987 until his retirement in 2009. Steele’s Dossier used by FBI to obtain FISA Warrant on Carter Page. Referred to DOJ by Grassley for potential violations of 18 USC 1001. Steele has known Fusion’s Simpson since at least 2009. Bruce Ohr has been described as a long-time friend of Steele with a relationship going back to at least 2006 (includes Ohr’s wife Nellie). Steele had extensive documented contact with Bruce Ohr starting in January 2016 (likely started earlier). Contact would continue through at least all of 2017. See here, here and here. Steele maintains contacts with British Intelligence, Sir Richard Dearlove and UK Intelligence firm Hakluyt. Steele appears to have been represented by Adam Waldman. Steele also appears to have lobbied on behalf of Oleg Deripaska – who was discussed in emails between Ohr and Steele. Steele Timeline here.
For more intelligence connections see section on UK private intelligence firm Hakluyt.
Intelligence Officials – Australia:
- Alexander Downer – Australia’s top diplomat in Britain. Met with George Papadopoulos in London. Papadopoulos stated “Russia had dirt on Hillary”. Months later Australia informed U.S. This would be used as excuse for FBI’s July 2016 Counterintelligence Investigation. Downer previously arranged one of the largest foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation – $25 million from the Australian government.
Downer sits on the Board of Chinese Telco Huawei. U.S. intelligence experts have deemed Huawei a security threat to the US and other nations. Downer has said that Huawei should not be considered a potential national security risk.
Downer was on the Advisory Board of Hakluyt (private UK intelligence firm) from 2008-2014. He reportedly still maintains contact with Hakluyt officials. Downer probably knows UK’s Dearlove. More on Downer here.
I anticipate the listing of Intelligence Officials – particularly U.S. and British – to grow moving forward. For more intelligence connections see section on UK private intelligence firm Hakluyt.
Obama Officials:
- Loretta Lynch – Former Attorney General. Tarmac Meeting with Bill Clinton just prior to FBI’s exoneration of HRC. Strzok Texts suggest that Lynch was aware Comey would not recommend criminal charges in the Clinton investigation prior to Attorney General Lynch’s announcement that she would accept whatever recommendation the FBI made.
- Valerie Jarrett – Senior Advisor to Obama. Some have asserted Jarrett was behind plot to destroy Trump. Continued to work w/Obama post-election.
- Susan Rice – National Security Advisor to Obama. “Susan Rice requested the identities of U.S. persons in raw intelligence reports on dozens of occasions that connect to the Donald Trump transition and campaign.” Rice sent herself an email documenting secret January 5, Oval Office meeting discussing Dossier with herself, Obama and FBI Director Comey. Rice’s email is the only known documentation of the meeting.
- Bruce Ohr is a former Associate Deputy Attorney General. Ohr was demoted twice. Stripped of Associate Deputy Attorney General title on December 6, 2017. Removed as head of the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force January 8, 2018. Unofficial liaison between Fusion GPS and FBI/DOJ. Wife – Nellie Ohr – worked at Fusion. Long-standing ties to both Christopher Steele and Glenn Simpson/Fusion GPS. Simpson and Bruce & Nellie Ohr have known each other since at least 2010. Ohr has been described as a long-time friend of Steele with a relationship going back to at least 2006 (includes Ohr’s wife Nellie). Ohr texted and emailed extensively with Steele beginning in January 2016 (likely started earlier). See here, here and here. Oleg Deripaska was discussed in emails between Ohr and Steele. Ohr appears to have a significant role in Dossier creation – see here and here.
- Denis McDonough – WH Chief of Staff. Strzok Texts suggest coordination between McDonough, then-Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid, and CIA Director John Brennan.
- Ben Rhodes – Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications. Personally involved in structuring disastrous Iran Nuclear Deal. Structured Echo Chambers w/press.
- Samantha Power – Former UN Ambassador. Named as person who unmasked hundreds of names. Testified that others used her name in unmasking requests.
- Victoria Nuland – Former Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs. Gave green light to FBI Agent Gaeta’s meeting w/Steele in July 2016. Received copy of Steele Dossier in July 2016. May have seen Dossier prior to FBI Leadership. Gave Dossier to FBI, Kerry. Nuland had known Steel since 2014 through Jonathan Winer. Lied about bilateral talks with Iran.
- Evelyn Farkas – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Russia/Ukraine/Eurasia. Farkas detailed in interview how the Obama Administration gathered and disseminated intelligence on the Trump Team. Farkas is a Non-Resident Senior Fellow at the Atlantic Council.
- Kathleen Kavalec – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs. Served under Nuland.
- John Kerry – Former Secretary of State. Received copy of Dossier from Nuland.
- Lisa Monaco – White House Homeland Security Adviser. Defended the Obama Administration’s response to Russian Interference.
- Jonathan Winer – Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for International Law Enforcement and former Special Envoy for Libya. Received copy of Shadow Dossier from Blumenthal. Also received copy of Steele Dossier in September 2016. Has known Steele for some years.
- Robert Otto – State Department – Bureau of Intelligence and Research specializing in Russia. Received emails from Nellie and Bruce Ohr since at least March 2016 relating to Natalia Veselnitskaya. Otto’s wife is Anne Jablonski. Jablonski worked for CIA (CIA’s top Russian organized crime expert) until forced resignation in May 2008. Jablonski was CIA handler for retired FBI Agent Robert Levinson who was kidnapped and remains missing in Iran. Oleg Deripaska would be enlisted in 2009 by then-FBI Director Robert Mueller for help in obtaining the release of Levinson. Andrew McCabe recruited Deripaska for the attempt. Clinton State Department killed the deal.
- Bob Bauer – White House Counsel to President Obama during 2010 and 2011. In 2013, Obama named Bauer to be Co-Chair of the Presidential Commission on Election Administration. Bauer was a Partner at Perkins Coie for 35 years until his retirement on May 15, 2018. Bauer was General Counsel to Obama for America, Obama’s campaign organization, in 2008 and 2012, and served as General Counsel to the Democratic National Committee. Bob has also served as co-counsel to the New Hampshire State Senate in the trial of Chief Justice David A. Brock (2000); general counsel to the Bill Bradley for President Committee (1999-2000); and counsel to the Democratic Leader in the trial of President William Jefferson Clinton (1999). Bauer has been an extensive contributor at Lawfare and Just Security.
Please visit Jeff Carlson’s webpage for a complete list of names.
March 8, 2019 – 35 Key People Involved In The Russia Hoax Who Need To Be Investigated
(…) “The following all played a part in the stunning and successful effort by Hillary Clinton’s campaign to infect the executive branch of the federal government with Trump-Russia conspiracy theories. Various writings—either authored by a Brit with ties to the Kremlin who was indirectly paid by Clinton’s campaign, or directly written by Hillary Clinton cronies—were funneled into the federal government through multiple avenues.
Partisan Democrats in the Obama administration were all too willing to believe the allegations, and use them as an excuse for bad behavior whether they believed them or not.
The documents have been called “dossiers,” but that really just attaches a fancy term to a Word document full of unverified mumbo jumbo that alleged Trump-Russia collusion. Those Word documents were then used to spy on the opposing political party’s presidential campaign, and to plant stories in the media right before the election insinuating that Trump had nefarious ties with Russia.
Here are 36 people who should be interviewed under oath, if they have not been interviewed already, some of whom should be subjected to criminal prosecution.”